Saturday, February 9, 2008

What the Bible says about Government

I have been thinking about politics and government in our country a lot lately so I thought it would be good if I did some bible study along those lines. Whatever I do in life I want to make sure that my thoughts and actions line up with God's word. There are many times that I make mistakes but I am trying. I hope to encourage you in that area as well and hope that you will in turn encourage me and kindly point out the areas that you think that I need to improve in.



Here are some of the verses that I found that talk about Government and what our role is.



Romans 13:1-7 " Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore he who resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil. Wherefore it is necassary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. Render to all what is due them; tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to who fear; honor to whom honor."



Titus 3:1 & 2 "Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed, to malign no one, to be uncontentious, gentle, showing every consideration for all men."



1 Peter 2:13-17 "Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right. For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men. Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God. Honor all men; love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king."


1 Timothy 2:1-2 "First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings be made on behalf of all men, for Kings and all who are in authority, in order that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity."

Reading those some of the things I am reminded of are:
  • We need to be praying for our leaders! This is something that I do some but not nearly to the extent that I think I should. I think the song "Why worry when you can pray" would apply well to this situation. When we listen to or read the news it should also be a time of prayer.
  • We need to be in subjection to our leaders. (Keeping in mind Acts5:29) I am blessed to live in a country that is ruled by the people. Knowing that I need to be in subjection to my rulers it is my goal to help see the best leaders possible to get into office.
  • We need to honor our rulers. Their office calls for respect. I need to be careful in how I talk about them.
Do you have any other verses that you like that talk about our governement?

36 comments:

Bob said...

Thank you for the reminder. Sometimes I forget who should be guiding my vote.

Linda Gann said...

thank you for these verses, and the reminder to all of us to pray for our leaders, our local, and state leaders, as well as our President. God Bless you, and your work.

Anonymous said...

Just wanted to thank you for sharing this particular group of passages as well as your comments. I am a home school mom preparing a unit on our Consitution. I will touch on why people need governments in the first place. As with all my teaching, I wanted to include what the Bible says about government. I'm glad you shared this.

Dr. Moss said...

When the righteous thrive, the people rejoice;
when the wicked rule, the people groan. - PROV. 29:2

ATTENTION ALL CHRISTIANS:
- Know your candidates
-VOTE for righteousness
- Hold them accountable
CONSERVATIVE VICTORY 2010 !

Nate said...

You incorrectly site Titus. The correct verses you speak of are Titus 3:1-2 if you are using the NIV of the Bible.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for posting these scriptures. I think too often people don't realize what the Bible says regarding people in our government. I agree that we need to pray and know the agenda of each candidate during times of election. We must vote for righteousness, always and pray frequently for our leaders ~ Cathy

Anonymous said...

January 23, 2011
Dear Abbi, I so want to thank you for posting those scriptures. It makes me so sad that our top Christian leaders on TV, bash the current administration, instead of following the scriptures to pray. Also, locally, we had a teacher in our area, decide to break the school laws, and leave a blble out on his desk,and to talk about religion in the public school setting...when it is against public school policy. Finally, a parent complained and it turned into a lawsuit....and instead of the Christian man humbling himself, and apologizing, he fought back. It has got the whole town and state of Ohio and who knows how far reaching this fight has reached? The point is, it is Satan's tactic to get us to fighting. God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble. Now, the man has lost everything, in his proud state of mind. He lost his case, his job, and at around age 50, his farm is in it's second mortgage, to pray his lawyer. And, to top it off, a local church that he attends, is involved in fighting for "his rights." My bible says, this about government, 11 Chronicles 7:14. "If my people who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray, and seek my Face....I will heal their land." It doesn't say, anything about standing up for our rights and fighting the already established law. We can fight the laws, but "there is away that seems right unto man, but the end result is death." Also, that scripture in chronicles talks about humbling ourselves and praying, not humbling ourselves and fighting. And, whose face are we to seek...the face of the lawyers, the face of the Senators, the lawmakers, the congressmen? Can they heal our land? Whose face are we to seek to get the laws changed? Thanks for your post. I've been wanting to see another Christian like myself, who puts the bible first....instead, all we like sheep have gone astray. No one is righteous, no not one. god have mercy on our backslidden ways. forgive our self-righteous attitude. Help us, as a nation, to turn back to You. In Yeshua, Karen

ArkieJo said...

Thank you for your encouragement on praying for our leaders. I receive so many negative annd outright inaccurate e-mails about the current administration that I find strength in know their are other people out there who know we should be praying for our leaders, not badmouthing them.

Scott Foxx said...

So the people who spoke out against Henry the VIII and were burned at the stake or boiled alive deserved their punishment? As did the heretics burned and beheaded by the Spanish? And should this country even exist considering it only does so due to rebellion against its proper 'God annointed' king? And which ruler should one obey? Whichever one is in power wherever one happens to be since the passages make no distinction? And if simply possessing a position of government and power implies Divine providence then doesn't this mean that Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo, Pol Pot, Baby Doc and Vlad the Impaler were God's intended and their opposition cursed sinners?

P4C = PATRIOT4CHRIST said...

hey i an new here but i like what you say but that does not answer the question Is there ever legitimate time to resist, oppose, revolt, rebel,
undermine, subvert in insurrection, overthrow of government? take the way our goverment is now for example its not a god trusting government any more obama is trying to destroy us what ar we supposed to do sit back and twittle our thumbs

please help me to understand this

Jessica said...

I was writing a paper on A Christians Responsibility Towards Government. Some verse I found are 1 Peter 2:13-17, Galations 3:19-22, Ephesians 6:7, and Titus 2:1-2. Hope you like these. Thanks for the article!

4Liberty said...

What we forget as Americans is that "We" are the government. We the People have the power and we only delegate that to who we elect. The school board example given, the parent in fact did submit to the government by standing up for his rights. That is the basis of our state and federal Constitution. We dont live in a monarchy or dictatorship yet. So as Christians we do honor our government by standing up for the principles for which is was founded. THere is nothing contradictory with disaproving of an elected official who is our representative and the scriptures commonly cited. That is exactly how our Constitution and country were put together.

Anonymous said...

Who governs you? God or man? Who's principles do u stand on? Gods or mans? Is it WE THE PEOPLE who govern or is it God who lives in you who governs you? Who is it that has power? We the people or God? Little David conquered Giant Goliath with Gods power and the stone killed him. Who is your rock? Does your rock kill the pride of man and still stay solid? In our weakness his strength is made perfect.

Abbi said...

P4C
Sorry it took me so long to answer your questions.

According to how our country is set up - yes there are times that it is appropriate to go against the government. It is part of our job as "We the people" to make sure that our elected leaders follow the constitution that they swore to uphold. Many of them are not. I am still figuring out what we should do besides praying,voting and encouraging others to vote but I do think there are other things that would still be in line with God's word to do as we have some leaders that are going against the rule of our country.

Anonymous said...

Wonderfully said! As Christians we support the views of our leaders by voting for them. Please vote biblically!! That being said regardless of outcomes of the election we MUST pray for our leaders. Don't assume someone else will! We are so blessed to live in America where good, bad, or indifferent 'We the people' get to vote for our leaders and we can pray to God for His intercession and love without fear of persecution! May God continue to bless and keep us.
Jennifer-Nurse Practitioner

Jake said...

Great read and this is true, but we must also realize that as stated previously that they are now taking God out of the schools, out of the workplace, out of everything, it's basically to rid the church. If we don't stand for our right to praise and worship God, then soon whenever you say Praise God you will be labeled as a terrorist, for I watched a video by G Craig Lewis who is an anointed man of God, who says that the Bible also says to pray for those in high power and authority , for many of your leaders are corrupt and not with God.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I mean not to attack the President but Barack Obama when running for office he won the vote of Christians by claiming he is a Christian, but he signed into law for homosexual marriage, which God doesn't approve of homosexuality, which is why now ministers have to marry them so Many marriage licensed ministers are dropping out because they don't want to do that for they don't support it, they're taking a stand for what they believe in, If we don't take a stand nothing is going to change and it's going to get worse, yes why worry when you can pray, Just sitting there and praying isn't the answer God wants to see you not just beg for help from him, for in order for God to work, you must also be an active contributor to the Solution, not just a "complainer" again I mean no offense, just voicing my opinion. We are living in the last days, and must be aware that many of the things that happen around us such as the recent shooting of the Sandy Hooks Elementary school in Connecticut shows that this world is coming down, the war in iraq isn't a war, and I've listened to both sides of the argument and people who live in the Middle-East even call us the Terrorists for we invade their country, attempting to make them conform to our ways, How can it be constitutional democracy, if 1. They were never apart of the constitution, and 2. it's not choice if it is forced physically and mentally.

Thank you for reading this, have a blessed night.

Brook Hickle said...

I, too, have been searching the Bible for how we are to respond and act if our leaders are not leading according to God's direction. I'm looking forward to more discussion on this.

Marie said...

Thank you for this page, it's a clear reminder of God's word, whether we like it or not it was written there and it's the compass we should live by if we have Jesus in our hearts :)

Justin said...

Part 1
Peace be with you but Christians do not be deceived.
Abbi, it's very good you turn to scripture but why do you only use quotes seeming to say government is good and obey them when the Bible says alot more that shows something quite different?
If you're not aware of this I'm happy to help include a fair representation of the Bible.
Realize scripture does not actually contradict itself. If it appears to that means that one's translation or understanding is perhaps incorrect, not the Bible.

The Bible says this:

-------------
Acts 5:29
29 But Peter and the apostles replied, “We must obey God rather than ANY human authority.
-------------

We cannot worship two masters as a Christian but God has control and allows people and governments to exist and He gives us all free will to do good or evil, but that does not mean he approves of evil.
Perhaps one generally considers governments good? Let's see what the Bible has to say who they follow?:

---------------
Luke 4:5-8 - New Living Translation (NLT)
5 Then the devil took him up and revealed to him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
6 “I will give you the glory of these kingdoms and authority over them,” the devil said, “because THEY ARE MINE to give to anyone I please. 7 I will give it all to you if you will worship me.”
8 Jesus replied, “The Scriptures say,
‘You must worship the LORD your God
and serve only him.’[a]”
----------------------

THE DEVIL! And God did not deny this! Throughout the Bible he is angry at governments even more than regular people:

--------------------
1 Samuel 12:12 - New Living Translation (NLT)
12 “But when you were afraid of Nahash, the king of Ammon, you came to me and said that you wanted a king to reign over you, even though the LORD your God was already your king.

1 Samuel 12:17-18 - New Living Translation (NLT)
17 You know that it does not rain at this time of the year during the wheat harvest. I will ask the LORD to send thunder and rain today. Then you will realize how wicked you have been in asking the LORD for a king!”
18 So Samuel called to the LORD, and the LORD sent thunder and rain that day. And all the people were terrified of the LORD and of Samuel.
19 “Pray to the LORD your God for us, or we will die!” they all said to Samuel. “For now we have added to our sins by asking for a king.”

James 4:4 - New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
4 Adulterers! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
--------------------

Not convinced those passages mentioned on the blog are not supposed to be interpreted as always obey the government (Satan)?
Then let us see how God's holy apostles and people dealt with government:

--------------------
Acts 5:26-42
26 The captain went with his Temple guards and arrested the apostles, but without violence, for they were afraid the people would stone them. 27 Then they brought the apostles before the high council,

Justin said...

Part 2

where the high priest confronted them. 28 “Didn’t we tell you never again to teach in this man’s name?” he demanded. “Instead, you have filled all Jerusalem with your teaching about him, and you want to make us responsible for his death!”
29 But Peter and the apostles replied, “We must obey God rather than any human authority. 30 The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead after you killed him by hanging him on a cross.[c] 31 Then God put him in the place of honor at his right hand as Prince and Savior.
He did this so the people of Israel would repent of their sins and be forgiven. 32 We are witnesses of these things and so is the Holy Spirit, who is given by God to those who obey him.”
33 When they heard this, the high council was furious and decided to kill them. 34 But one member, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, who was an expert in religious law and respected by all the people, stood up and ordered that the men be sent outside the council chamber for a while.
35 Then he said to his colleagues, “Men of Israel, take care what you are planning to do to these men! 36 Some time ago there was that fellow Theudas, who pretended to be someone great. About 400 others joined him, but he was killed, and all his followers went their various ways.
The whole movement came to nothing. 37 After him, at the time of the census, there was Judas of Galilee. He got people to follow him, but he was killed, too, and all his followers were scattered.
38 “So my advice is, leave these men alone. Let them go. If they are planning and doing these things merely on their own, it will soon be overthrown. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You may even find yourselves fighting against God!”
40 The others accepted his advice. They called in the apostles and had them flogged. Then they ordered them never again to speak in the name of Jesus, and they let them go.
41 The apostles left the high council rejoicing that God had counted them worthy to suffer disgrace for the name of Jesus.[d] 42 And every day, in the Temple and from house to house, they continued to teach and preach this message: “Jesus is the Messiah.”
-------------------
THE HOLY APOSTLES DISOBEYED THE COMMANDS OF HUMAN AUTHORITY! And as Romans 13 says would happen, and as one of the interpretations, HUMANS condemned them and wanted to kill them for preaching in Jesus name and spreading the Gospel of Christ,
what they (authority) thought was evil behavior and as Romans 13 says they held and punished them BUT THE LORD SAVED THEM! THEY CONTINUED TO DISOBEY HUMAN AUTHORITY WITH RENEWED PASSION AND GOD VINDICATED THEM BY Gamaliel's OWN TEST!

But maybe you say that Jews couldn't be in authority because Romans were occupying them? Let's see a scripture on one of the highest world authorities there was (and Revelations, Daniel and Jeremiah 51:7 de facto warn will come again on a global scale with the Anti-Christ as the head of):

---------------
Daniel 3:4-28 - New Living Translation (NLT)
4 Then a herald shouted out, “People of all races and nations and languages, listen to the king’s command! 5 When you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipes, and other musical instruments,[c] bow to the ground to worship King Nebuchadnezzar’s gold statue.
6 Anyone who refuses to obey will immediately be thrown into a blazing furnace.”
7 So at the sound of the musical instruments,[d] all the people, whatever their race or nation or language, bowed to the ground and worshiped the gold statue that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up.
8 But some of the astrologers[e] went to the king and informed on the Jews. 9 They said to King Nebuchadnezzar, “Long live the king!
10 You issued a decree requiring all the people to bow down and worship the gold statue when they hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipes, and other musical instruments. 11 That decree also states that those who refuse to obey must be thrown into a blazing furnace.

Justin said...

Part 3
12 But there are some Jews—Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego—whom you have put in charge of the province of Babylon. They pay no attention to you, Your Majesty. They refuse to serve your gods and do not worship the gold statue you have set up.”
13 Then Nebuchadnezzar flew into a rage and ordered that Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego be brought before him. When they were brought in,
14 Nebuchadnezzar said to them, “Is it true, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, that you refuse to serve my gods or to worship the gold statue I have set up?
15 I will give you one more chance to bow down and worship the statue I have made when you hear the sound of the musical instruments.[f] But if you refuse, you will be thrown immediately into the blazing furnace. And then what god will be able to rescue you from my power?”
16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego replied, “O Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God whom we serve is able to save us. He will rescue us from your power, Your Majesty.
18 But even if he doesn’t, we want to make it clear to you, Your Majesty, that we will never serve your gods or worship the gold statue you have set up.”
The Blazing Furnace
19 Nebuchadnezzar was so furious with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego that his face became distorted with rage. He commanded that the furnace be heated seven times hotter than usual.
20 Then he ordered some of the strongest men of his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego and throw them into the blazing furnace. 21 So they tied them up and threw them into the furnace, fully dressed in their pants, turbans, robes, and other garments.
22 And because the king, in his anger, had demanded such a hot fire in the furnace, the flames killed the soldiers as they threw the three men in. 23 So Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, securely tied, fell into the roaring flames.
24 But suddenly, Nebuchadnezzar jumped up in amazement and exclaimed to his advisers, “Didn’t we tie up three men and throw them into the furnace?”
“Yes, Your Majesty, we certainly did,” they replied.
25 “Look!” Nebuchadnezzar shouted. “I see four men, unbound, walking around in the fire unharmed! And the fourth looks like a god[g]!”
26 Then Nebuchadnezzar came as close as he could to the door of the flaming furnace and shouted: “Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, servants of the Most High God, come out! Come here!”
So Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego stepped out of the fire. 27 Then the high officers, officials, governors, and advisers crowded around them and saw that the fire had not touched them. Not a hair on their heads was singed, and their clothing was not scorched. They didn’t even smell of smoke!
28 Then Nebuchadnezzar said, “Praise to the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego! He sent his angel to rescue his servants who trusted in him. They defied the king’s command and were willing to die rather than serve or worship any god except their own God.
-----------------------

SHADRACH, MESHACH, AND ABEDNEGO DISOBEYED KING NEBUCHADNEZZAR OF BABLYON! THEY REFUSED TO BOW TO HIS STATUE! And again as Romans 13 says, and as one of the interpretations, KING NEBUCHADNEZZAR PUNISHED THEM IN FLAME.... BUT GOD SAVED THEM!
Not a hair on them was singed and Nebuchadnezzar dared not touch them further.

Not enough? Maybe it's just about not denying God? Well then, let us see people of Israel defying their rulers and one of God's very own Judges rising from the people, both people and judge committing an act that would shock those who aren't mature in God:

-------------------
Judges 3:12-30
Ehud, the Judge
12 Again the people of Israel did what the LORD said was wrong. So the LORD gave Eglon king of Moab power to defeat Israel because of the evil Israel did. 13 Eglon got the Ammonites and the Amalekites to join him. Then he attacked Israel and took Jericho, the city of palm trees.
14 So the people of Israel were ruled by Eglon king of Moab for eighteen years.

Justin said...

Part 4

15 When the people cried to the LORD, he sent someone to save them. He was Ehud, son of Gera from the people of Benjamin, who was left-handed. Israel sent Ehud to give Eglon king of Moab the payment he demanded.
16 Ehud made himself a sword with two edges, about eighteen inches long, and he tied it to his right hip under his clothes. 17 Ehud gave Eglon king of Moab the payment he demanded. Now Eglon was a very fat man.
18 After he had given Eglon the payment, Ehud sent away the people who had carried it. 19 When he passed the statues near Gilgal, he turned around and said to Eglon, “I have a secret message for you, King Eglon.”
The king said, “Be quiet!” Then he sent all of his servants out of the room. 20 Ehud went to King Eglon, as he was sitting alone in the room above his summer palace.
Ehud said, “I have a message from God for you.” As the king stood up from his chair, 21 Ehud reached with his left hand and took out the sword that was tied to his right hip. Then he stabbed the sword deep into the king’s belly!

22 Even the handle sank in, and the blade came out his back. The king’s fat covered the whole sword, so Ehud left the sword in Eglon. 23 Then he went out of the room and closed and locked the doors behind him.
24 When the servants returned just after Ehud left, they found the doors to the room locked. So they thought the king was relieving himself. 25 They waited for a long time. Finally they became worried because he still had not opened the doors.
So they got the key and unlocked them and saw their king lying dead on the floor!
26 While the servants were waiting, Ehud had escaped. He passed by the statues and went to Seirah. 27 When he reached the mountains of Ephraim he blew the trumpet. The people of Israel heard it and went down from the hills with Ehud leading them.
28 He said to them, “Follow me! The LORD has helped you to defeat your enemies, the Moabites.” So Israel followed Ehud and captured the crossings of the Jordan River. They did not allow the Moabites to cross the Jordan River.
29 Israel killed about ten thousand strong and able men from Moab; not one escaped. 30 So that day Moab was forced to be under the rule of Israel, and there was peace in the land for eighty years.
-------------------

EHUD, THE JUDGE, ASSASSINATED KING EGLON! AND THE PEOPLE SUPPORTED IN REVOLUTION! Ehud is an example to modern ISRAEL'S MOSSAD on GOD's principals of when assassination is justified - NEVER AS MURDER,
ONLY IN DEFENSE, WITHOUT ANY INNOCENT HARMED, WITHOUT PLEASURE OR TRUE MALICE, WITH PRAYER, WITH GOD'S APPROVAL, WITH SUPPORT FROM THE PEOPLE WHO ALREADY HAVE JUDGED.

(See also Psalm 82:4 - New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
4 Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”, "If someone comes to kill you, arise quickly and kill him." The Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin. Vol. 2, 72a.)

People don't take it seriously enough but the Bible indicates God wants us to do what we can to stop unjust sentences from any authority:

-----------------------
Proverbs 24:11-12 - Good News Translation (GNT)
11 Don't hesitate to rescue someone who is about to be executed unjustly. 12 You may say that it is none of your business, but God knows and judges your motives. He keeps watch on you; he knows. And he will reward you according to what you do.

Proverbs 24:11 - New Living Translation (NLT)
11 Rescue those who are unjustly sentenced to die;
save them as they stagger to their death.

Isaiah 10:1 - New International Version (NIV)
10 Woe to those who make unjust laws,
to those who issue oppressive decrees,
-------------------

Maybe one thinks okay but you surely can't disobey authority from one of your own on a matter of conscience. Let's see what the Bible says:

-------------------
Exodus 1:15-2:10 - New Living Translation (NLT)

Justin said...

Part 5
15 Then Pharaoh, the king of Egypt, gave this order to the Hebrew midwives, Shiphrah and Puah: 16 “When you help the Hebrew women as they give birth, watch as they deliver.[a] If the baby is a boy, kill him; if it is a girl, let her live.”
17 But because the midwives feared God, they refused to obey the king’s orders. They allowed the boys to live, too.
18 So the king of Egypt called for the midwives. “Why have you done this?” he demanded. “Why have you allowed the boys to live?”
19 “The Hebrew women are not like the Egyptian women,” the midwives replied. “They are more vigorous and have their babies so quickly that we cannot get there in time.”
20 So God was good to the midwives, and the Israelites continued to multiply, growing more and more powerful. 21 And because the midwives feared God, he gave them families of their own.
22 Then Pharaoh gave this order to all his people: “Throw every newborn Hebrew boy into the Nile River. But you may let the girls live.”
The Birth of Moses
2 About this time, a man and woman from the tribe of Levi got married. 2 The woman became pregnant and gave birth to a son. She saw that he was a special baby and kept him hidden for three months.
3 But when she could no longer hide him, she got a basket made of papyrus reeds and waterproofed it with tar and pitch. She put the baby in the basket and laid it among the reeds along the bank of the Nile River.
4 The baby’s sister then stood at a distance, watching to see what would happen to him.
5 Soon Pharaoh’s daughter came down to bathe in the river, and her attendants walked along the riverbank. When the princess saw the basket among the reeds, she sent her maid to get it for her.
6 When the princess opened it, she saw the baby. The little boy was crying, and she felt sorry for him. “This must be one of the Hebrew children,” she said.
7 Then the baby’s sister approached the princess. “Should I go and find one of the Hebrew women to nurse the baby for you?” she asked.
8 “Yes, do!” the princess replied. So the girl went and called the baby’s mother.
9 “Take this baby and nurse him for me,” the princess told the baby’s mother. “I will pay you for your help.” So the woman took her baby home and nursed him.
10 Later, when the boy was older, his mother brought him back to Pharaoh’s daughter, who adopted him as her own son. The princess named him Moses,[b] for she explained, “I lifted him out of the water.”
-----------------
THE MIDWIVES DISOBEYED PHARAOH! AND GOD BLESSED THEIR DISOBEDIENCE TO EVIL HUMAN GOVERNMENT AND GREW THEIR FAMILIES!

Were they wrong? Was the princess also wrong for disobeying Pharaoh?
OBEYING PHARAOH'S ORDER TO ALL HIS PEOPLE WOULD MEAN MURDERING NEWBORN MOSES! IS THAT WHAT GOD WOULD WANT? Obviously NO!

Justin said...

Part 6
Let us then test the translation of Romans 13 I believe you chose, or the closest I could find (World English Bible (WEB)?), replacing the words “governing authorities,” “rulers,” and the personal pronouns with the names
of the governing authorities, emperor and kings of the time of Paul's writing, Nero and Herod, and other times.

Romans 13

World English Bible (WEB)

13 Let every soul be in subjection to "PHARAOH, NERO, HEROD, HITLER,
NEBUCHADNEZZAR, SATAN AND THE ANTI-CHRIST" for there is no authority except from God, and "PHARAOH, NERO, HEROD, HITLER, NEBUCHADNEZZAR, SATAN AND THE ANTI-CHRIST" are ordained by God.
2 Therefore he who resists "PHARAOH, NERO, HEROD, HITLER, NEBUCHADNEZZAR, SATAN AND THE ANTI-CHRIST", withstands the ordinance of God; and those who withstand will receive to themselves judgment.
3 For "PHARAOH, NERO, HEROD, HITLER, NEBUCHADNEZZAR, SATAN AND THE ANTI-CHRIST" are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. Do you desire to have no fear of "PHARAOH, NERO, HEROD, HITLER,
NEBUCHADNEZZAR, SATAN AND THE ANTI-CHRIST"? Do that which is good, and you will have praise from "PHARAOH, NERO, HEROD, HITLER, NEBUCHADNEZZAR, SATAN AND THE ANTI-CHRIST",
4 for he is a servant of God to you for good. But if you do that which is evil, be afraid, for "PHARAOH, NERO, HEROD, HITLER, NEBUCHADNEZZAR, SATAN AND THE ANTI-CHRIST" don’t bear the sword in vain; for
"PHARAOH, NERO, HEROD, HITLER, NEBUCHADNEZZAR,
SATAN AND THE ANTI-CHRIST" is a servant of God, an avenger for wrath to him who does evil. 5 Therefore you need to be in subjection "TO PHARAOH, NERO, HEROD, HITLER, NEBUCHADNEZZAR, SATAN AND THE ANTI-CHRIST",
not only because of the wrath, but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For this reason you also pay taxes, for "PHARAOH, NERO, HEROD, HITLER, NEBUCHADNEZZAR,
SATAN AND THE ANTI-CHRIST" are servants of God’s service, attending continually on this very thing. 7 Therefore give everyone what you owe: if you owe taxes, pay taxes; if customs, then customs; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

AND THE VERY NEXT SENTENCE WHICH WASN'T QUOTED ORIGINALLY BUT CHANGES THE MEANING!

8 Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

SO ARE WE SUPPOSED TO OBEY "PHARAOH, NERO, HEROD, HITLER, NEBUCHADNEZZAR, SATAN AND THE ANTI-CHRIST"?
Is it wrong to disobey the ANTI-CHRIST and refuse the MARK OF THE BEAST?
I'm sure he would certainly say so and quote Romans 13 but God has damnation on those who DO take it. Revelation 19:20. Which master do you choose? So do we really think then that the Bible, Romans 13, is commanding us to obey the ANTI-CHRIST?
PHARAOH? HITLER? If Government tells you to murder Jews do you really think you're supposed to comply, is that what Romans 13 means? The Bible tells us "Numbers 24:9 - New Living Translation (NLT)
9 Like a lion, Israel crouches and lies down;
like a lioness, who dares to arouse her?
Blessed is everyone who blesses you, O Israel,
and cursed is everyone who curses you.”".
Are we to obey Satan because he an authority "ordained" by God? Is that really what these passages are saying? NO! NEVER!

How should Christians today interpret Romans 13 and these passages knowing that Nero was in power at the time of Paul’s writing? How can we resolve the problem of knowing that Nero killed, murdered, good people,
namely Christians, when the passage clearly says that civil government rewards and commends those who do good? Clearly, the interpretation problem is not resolved with an immutable maxim as simple as “do what the government says.”


Let us look at the text itself, I would use the Aramaic New Testament Scriptures as delivered to the First Century Church but since most Bibles translate from the Greek then for argument's sake let me prove my case even from that.

Justin said...

Part 7?8
We know this is a common translation:

Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established.

But this translation is quite misleading. The first problem is that the word "governing" is not in the Greek text (if you don't have access
to it do a search or use a Reverse-Interlinear New Testament or Interlinear New Testament as on many Bible translation sites). The word often translated
as "governing" is "huperecho". It can mean "superior in rank", but it also has a strong sense of "excellence" even when interpreted so instead of "excellent".
Paul used the same word in Phil 3:8, when speaking of the "excellency" or "surpassing greatness" of knowing Christ.

--------------
Philippians 3:8

Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

8 Furthermore I count all things to be but loss for the excellent knowledge of Jesus Christ my Lord; for whom I have suffered the loss of

all things, and count them but as dung, that I may gain Christ:
---------------

Translated this way Paul is actually saying that we should only submit to those who are excellent. He is giving us a choice when submitting
(and an integral part of love is freedom). We only submit to those who have demonstrated excellence.

This is an important aspect of submission. Christians are never required to offer blind submission.
Our freedom means that submission is always voluntary. We should use our freedom to submit wisely. We should only submit to the best people, whether elders, judges or employers.

Excellent Judges

The other translation problem in Romans 13 is the word "authority" (exousia). It is used four times in the first two verses of the chapter, so its meaning is really important for understanding
Paul's message. By attaching the word "governing", modern translations give exousia the strongest possible meaning in favor of government. However, like the English word "authority",
the Greek word "exousia" can take a broad range of meanings,

including freedom, ruler, authority and judge. Its most commonly use is for the authority that was given to Jesus (Matt 28:10). It is also used to describe spiritual authorities (Eph 1:21; 6:12).

In Luke 12:11, exousia is used in the context of appearance before a court, so "judge" or "magistrate" is the appropriate translation. The context in Romans 13 is similar, as Paul is thinking
about crime and punishment. In most societies, the punishment of crime is handled by judges in courts of law. Therefore, translating exousia as judge makes sense in this passage.

The usual practice of translating exousia as authority does not make sense as it implies that Christians should submit every political authority including evil dictators. Paul had just warned
that Christians should not be "overcome by evil" as the very last sentence before Romans 13 in
------------
Romans 12:21 - New Living Translation (NLT)
21 Don’t let evil conquer you, but conquer evil by doing good.
.
------------
It is unlikely that he would follow this warning with a message of comfort to rulers and authorities who do not acknowledge Jesus as Lord.

In Romans 13, exousia is authority that has been given by God to those who implement his law, so it must be referring to judges. The core message of Romans 13:1 is that all people should submit to excellent judges.

Don't believe? Take the time to again read Philippians 3:8 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA) above which translates huperecho as "excellent" and other translations' choice of "excellency"
"superior value", "surpassing value", "sake of what is so much more valuable", "infinite value", "surpassing worth" versus the same word in Romans 13:1 suddenly becoming "governing".
Especially see Phil 3:8 in Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV), Common English Bible (CEB),

Justin said...

Part8?9

New Revised Standard Version (NRSV), Good News Translation (GNT), New Living Translation (NLT) and New International Version (NIV).
Over and over again you will see the meaning excellent or a flavor thereof in that sense like "superior" rather than as "governing".

And what about other translations of Romans 13, from the Greek? Many, especially those commissioned by government, have chosen "governing" but not all. Let us see an example:

Dansk (DA)
Dette er Biblen på dansk (DN1933)

13 Hver Sjæl underordne sig de foresatte Øvrigheder; thi der er ikke Øvrighed uden af Gud, men de, som ere, ere indsatte af Gud,

IN ENGLISH:
13 Every soul in subjection to the superior magistrates, for there is no authority except from God, but those who are, are inmates of God,

Wow! And even translating "ordained by God" as "inmates of God" although I would translate even more accurately in my opinion as "ordered by God".
But that brings me to my next point. Our God of grace, love and freedom, Jesus is in control of all things, even the devil, and whether he approves of them or not
and they cannot escape God's plan. Let us see the full translation of Romans 13 however:

---------------------------------
Dansk (DA)
Dette er Biblen på dansk (DN1933)

13 Hver Sjæl underordne sig de foresatte Øvrigheder; thi der er ikke Øvrighed uden af Gud, men de, som ere, ere indsatte af Gud, 2 så at

den, som sætter sig imod Øvrigheden, modstår Guds Ordning; men de, som modstå, skulle få deres Dom. 3 Thi de styrende ere ikke en Skræk for

den gode Gerning, men for den onde. Men vil du være uden Frygt for Øvrigheden, så gør det gode, og du skal få Ros af den. 4 Thi den er en

Guds Tjener, dig til gode. Men dersom du gør det onde, da frygt; thi den bærer ikke Sværdet forgæves; den er nemlig Guds Tjener, en Hævner

til Straf for den, som øver det onde. 5 Derfor er det nødvendigt at underordne sig, ikke alene for Straffens Skyld, men også for

Samvittighedens. 6 Derfor betale I jo også Skatter; thi de ere Guds Tjenere, som just tage Vare på dette. 7 Betaler alle, hvad I ere dem

skyldige: den, som I ere Skat skyldige, Skat; den, som Told, Told; den, som Frygt, Frygt; den, som Ære, Ære.

8 Bliver ingen noget skyldige, uden det, at elske hverandre; thi den, som elsker den anden, har opfyldt Loven. 9 Thi det: "Du må ikke

bedrive Hor; du må ikke slå ihjel; du må ikke stjæle; du må ikke begære," og hvilket andet bud der er, det sammenfattes i dette Ord: "Du

skal elske din Næste som dig selv," 10 Kærligheden gør ikke ondt imod Næsten; derfor er Kærligheden Lovens Fylde.

11 Og dette just, fordi I kende Tiden, at det alt er på Tide, at I skulle stå op af Søvne; thi nu er vor Frelse nærmere, end da vi bleve

troende. 12 Natten er fremrykket, og Dagen er kommen nær. Lader os derfor aflægge Mørkets Gerninger og iføre os Lysets Våben; 13 lader os

vandre sømmeligt som om Dagen, ikke i Svir og Drik, ikke i Løsagtighed og Uterlighed, ikke i Kiv og Avind; 14 men ifører eder den Herre

Jesus Kristus, og drager ikke Omsorg for Kødet, så Begæringer vækkes!

Justin said...

Part 9?10

ENGLISH FROM DANISH

13 Every soul in subjection to the superior magistrates, for there is no authority except from God, but those who are, are inmates of God,

2 so that he who opposes the magistrate, resists God's scheme, but those who resist, should get their judgment. 3 For the governing are no

terror for the good works, but to the evil. However, you will have no fear of the magistrate, so make it good, and thou shalt have praise

of it. 4 For he is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do evil, then fear, for he bears not the sword in vain: it is in fact a

servant of God, takes vengeance punishment for the one who practices evil. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to subordinate themselves, not only

for punishment 's sake, but also for conscience . 6 Wherefore ye also pay taxes, for they are God's servants, who just wait on this. 7 Pay

everyone what their dues: that which ye tribute is due: he that Customs, Customs, fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

8 Are not something owed, without it, to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law . 9 For it: "Thou shalt not

commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, "and the second bid that is, it summed up in this word:

"You shall love your neighbor as yourself, "10 Love does not hurt against neighbor; therefore love fulfillment of the law .

11 And this just because I know the time that everything is on the Tide , that you should stand up out of sleep : for now is our salvation

nearer than when we believed. 12 The night is far spent, and the day has come near. Let us therefore submit deeds of darkness and put on

Light Weapons; 13 Let us walk becomingly as in the day, not in carousing and Drunk, not in lewdness and licentiousness, not in strife and

envying 14 but donning ye the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not indulge of the flesh so desires awaken!
---------------------------------

Rulers

Another key word is mistranslated in many Bibles (particularly from the Greek) in the third verse of the chapter.

"For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority?

Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing.
He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer (Rom 13:3,4)."

The word usually translated as "ruler" is "arkon". English translations of Romans almost always choose the strongest possible translation in favor of government,
but this Greek word can also be translated as "judge" or "magistrate". It is translated as judge in Luke 12:58. The context confirms that Paul is writing about submission to judges.
Or if one cannot accept the true translation of "arkon" as "judge" then let the Bible show you even as "rulers" the sense is that of actual "Judges" as from the Torah and the Book of Judges:

Justin said...

Part 10?11

Exodus 18:13-26
American Standard Version (ASV)

13 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses sat to judge the people: and the people stood about Moses from the morning unto the

evening.
14 And when Moses' father-in-law saw all that he did to the people, he said, What is this thing that thou doest to the people? why sittest

thou thyself alone, and all the people stand about thee from morning unto even?
15 And Moses said unto his father-in-law, Because the people come unto me to inquire of God:
16 when they have a matter, they come unto me; and I judge between a man and his neighbor, and I make them know the statutes of God, and

his laws.
17 And Moses' father-in-law said unto him, The thing that thou doest is not good.
18 Thou wilt surely wear away, both thou, and this people that is with thee: for the thing is too heavy for thee; thou art not able to

perform it thyself alone.
19 Hearken now unto my voice, I will give thee counsel, and God be with thee: be thou for the people to God-ward, and bring thou the causes

unto God:
20 and thou shalt teach them the statutes and the laws, and shalt show them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do.
21 Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating unjust gain; and place such over

them, to be rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens:
22 and let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, that every great matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small

matter they shall judge themselves: so shall it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear the burden with thee.
23 If thou shalt do this thing, and God command thee so, then thou shalt be able to endure, and all this people also shall go to their

place in peace.
24 So Moses hearkened to the voice of his father-in-law, and did all that he had said.
25 And Moses chose able men out of all Israel, and made them heads over the people, rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of

fifties, and rulers of tens.
26 And they judged the people at all seasons: the hard causes they brought unto Moses, but every small matter they judged themselves.
27 And Moses let his father-in-law depart; and he went his way into his own land.
---------------------

But Biblical Judges are special. God was angry at kings but He raised up Judges. Remember Israel had no king upon it's founding (see Judges 19:1)
for God was supposed to be Israel's King and He made us in His Image (Genesis 1:26-27), reasoning, sovereign kings/queens over ourselves with only God
worthy of worship and above us (see Psalms 8:3-9). As Scripture says:

-------------------------
Micah 4:9 –
New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
9 Now why do you cry aloud?
IS THERE NO KING IN YOU?
Has your counselor perished,
that pangs have seized you like a woman in labor?
21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
9 Now why dost thou cry out aloud? IS THERE NO KING IN THEE? Is thy counselor perished? For pangs have taken thee as a woman in travail.
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
9 Now, why art thou drawn together with grief? HAST THOU NO KING IN THEE, or is thy counsellor perished, because sorrow hath taken thee as a woman in labour?
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
9 Now, why dost thou shout aloud? A KING -- IS THERE NONE IN THEE? Hath thy counsellor perished, That taken hold of thee hath pain as a travailing woman?
Common English Bible (CEB)
9 Now why do you cry out so loudly?
ISN’T THE KING IN YOU?
Or has your counselor perished,
so that pain has seized you like that of a woman in labor?
--------------------------

Israel had no King but God and the authority he put in each of us. Israel had no government, no state, but was a nation of holy people.
(for definitions see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stateless_society vs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation)

Justin said...

Part 11?12

Not just does the Bible express this (e.g. Judges 19:1) but even hard evidence from other nations of the time confirm this: The Merneptah Stele
shows Israel, a stateless nomadic people 1209 BCE in an inscription of the Egyptian pharaoh Merneptah: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merneptah_Stele

The period of the three Patriarchs has been placed somewhere in the early 2nd millennium BCE and Israel did not have a King/Kingdom
until 1026 BCE, the first Kingdom of Israel, beginning with King Saul: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Israel_%28united_monarchy%29

Biblical Judges were essentially paragons of virtue, wisdom and sometimes martial ability like Ehud, mentioned earlier whom the Israeli Mossad's
moto is "Where no counsel is, the people fall, but in the multitude of counselors there is safety. (Proverbs XI:14)"

Let us look at another of Israel's special Judges, these individuals who gave guidance and inspired Israel to feats and right behavior but did not rule
like a government with coercion and taxation and see more of their roles as matching Romans 13:

-------------------------
Judges 4:4-23
New Living Translation (NLT)
4 Deborah, the wife of Lappidoth, was a prophet who was judging Israel at that time. 5 She would sit under the Palm of Deborah, between

Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim, and the Israelites would go to her for judgment. 6 One day she sent for Barak son of

Abinoam, who lived in Kedesh in the land of Naphtali. She said to him, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, commands you: Call out

10,000 warriors from the tribes of Naphtali and Zebulun at Mount Tabor. 7 And I will call out Sisera, commander of Jabin’s army, along with

his chariots and warriors, to the Kishon River. There I will give you victory over him.”
8 Barak told her, “I will go, but only if you go with me.”
9 “Very well,” she replied, “I will go with you. But you will receive no honor in this venture, for the Lord’s victory over Sisera will be

at the hands of a woman.” So Deborah went with Barak to Kedesh. 10 At Kedesh, Barak called together the tribes of Zebulun and Naphtali, and

10,000 warriors went up with him. Deborah also went with him.
11 Now Heber the Kenite, a descendant of Moses’ brother-in-law[a] Hobab, had moved away from the other members of his tribe and pitched his

tent by the oak of Zaanannim near Kedesh.
12 When Sisera was told that Barak son of Abinoam had gone up to Mount Tabor, 13 he called for all 900 of his iron chariots and all of his

warriors, and they marched from Harosheth-haggoyim to the Kishon River.
14 Then Deborah said to Barak, “Get ready! This is the day the Lord will give you victory over Sisera, for the Lord is marching ahead of

you.” So Barak led his 10,000 warriors down the slopes of Mount Tabor into battle. 15 When Barak attacked, the Lord threw Sisera and all

his chariots and warriors into a panic. Sisera leaped down from his chariot and escaped on foot. 16 Then Barak chased the chariots and the

enemy army all the way to Harosheth-haggoyim, killing all of Sisera’s warriors. Not a single one was left alive.
17 Meanwhile, Sisera ran to the tent of Jael, the wife of Heber the Kenite, because Heber’s family was on friendly terms with King Jabin of

Hazor. 18 Jael went out to meet Sisera and said to him, “Come into my tent, sir. Come in. Don’t be afraid.” So he went into her tent, and

she covered him with a blanket.
19 “Please give me some water,” he said. “I’m thirsty.” So she gave him some milk from a leather bag and covered him again.
20 “Stand at the door of the tent,” he told her. “If anybody comes and asks you if there is anyone here, say no.”
21 But when Sisera fell asleep from exhaustion, Jael quietly crept up to him with a hammer and tent peg in her hand. Then she drove the

tent peg through his temple and into the ground, and so he died.
22 When Barak came looking for Sisera, Jael went out to meet him. She said, “Come, and I will show you the man you are looking for.”

Justin said...

Part 12?13

So he followed her into the tent and found Sisera lying there dead, with the tent peg through his temple.
23 So on that day Israel saw God defeat Jabin, the Canaanite king.
----------------------

Hopefully one can now see, especially after the Danish Dette er Biblen på dansk translation (see Aramaic too), how a proper reading (especially from a good translation)
of Romans 13 is not the submission to government ruled by the devil but the submission to excellent Judges in manner God intended society to be, as Israel was supposed to be
before they kept losing their away into the arms of sin, eventually rejecting God in favor of human government (see 1 Samuel 8). But the final nail in the coffin should be the line in Romans 13:8 that often is left out...

------------
Romans 13:8 - Good News Translation (GNT)
8 Be under obligation to no one—the only obligation you have is to love one another. Whoever does this has obeyed the Law.
-----------

How after all the supposed "submission to authority" does this line match? Answer: Paul was being clever writing Romans 13, just as his Master, Jesus,
was when questioned about whether to pay coercive taxes. Paul knew full well the power of Nero and the potential harm he could cause to Christians in Rome – he calls it “the sword”
– and he does not want believers to be persecuted for anything other than the name of Christ and what he stands for.
---------
Romans 12:17 - New Living Translation (NLT)
17 Never pay back evil with more evil. Do things in such a way that everyone can see you are honorable.
---------
Paul was imprisoned by Rome and suffered writing from prison (understand that while someone insists you read Romans 13 with obey government always
interpretation). He wanted Christians to know the truth but also for it to go undetected by the Emperor lest all Christians suffer, just as Jesus wanted us
to know the truth but stated it in a way government would assume he means obey them, pay taxes, while believers would understand the truth.

----------------
Matthew 22:15-22 - New Living Translation (NLT)
15 Then the Pharisees met together to plot how to trap Jesus into saying something for which he could be arrested.
16 They sent some of their disciples, along with the supporters of Herod, to meet with him. “Teacher,” they said, “we know how honest you are. You teach the way of God truthfully.
You are impartial and don’t play favorites. 17 Now tell us what you think about this: Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?”
18 But Jesus knew their evil motives. “You hypocrites!” he said. “Why are you trying to trap me?
19 Here, show me the coin used for the tax.” When they handed him a Roman coin,[a] 20 he asked, “Whose picture and title are stamped on it?”
21 “Caesar’s,” they replied.
“Well, then,” he said, “give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God.”
22 His reply amazed them, and they went away.
-------------------
Government would say, "good he says pay to Caesar",
but believers would understand “give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God.... But what belongs to Caesar that does not belong to God?” "NOTHING!"

Note also the coin’s actual inscription read “Ti[berivs] Caesar Divi Avg[vsti] F[ilivs] Avgvstvs” (“Caesar Augustus Tiberius, [Worshipful] Son of the Divine/God Augustus”), claiming that Augustus was a god.
I wonder what Jesus, God, thought about Caesar claiming he was God?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribute_penny

Again we can see Jesus making His point and disobeying government without them being even aware below.

Justin said...

Part 13?14 FINAL

Matthew 17:24-27 - New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
Jesus and the Temple Tax
24 When they reached Capernaum, the collectors of the temple tax[i] came to Peter and said, “Does your teacher not pay the temple tax?”[j]
25 He said, “Yes, he does.” And when he came home, Jesus spoke of it first, asking, “What do you think, Simon? From whom do kings of the earth take toll or tribute?
From their children or from others?” 26 When Peter[k] said, “From others,” Jesus said to him, “Then the children are free.
27 However, so that we do not give offense to them, go to the sea and cast a hook; take the first fish that comes up; and when you open its mouth, you will find a coin;[l] take that and give it to them for you and me.”
-----------------

On one hand looking like obedience to government, but in truth asserting His authority while keeping government from having an excuse to arrest Him or His people before their time.

-------------------
Matthew 28:18 - New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
------------------

Thus the truth of Romans 13 is not obedience to government but to God, directly and via excellent Judges - those that actually are doing God's will as tested against the golden rule,
that evil judges/authorities too will reward and punish but based on THEIR idea of good and bad instead of God's but God is still in control of all and will ultimately deal with them
and above all else - this one line: Romans 13:8
8 Be under obligation to no one—the only obligation you have is to love one another. Whoever does this has obeyed the Law.

Love and God Bless,
Justin

Karen Lenerville said...

I needed scriptures about praying for our president and came across your blog. Perfect timing, and I saved you blog in a bookmark.
I have always thought as myself as a Proverbs 31 woman, or striving to be, anyway.
I believe that if all women that proclaim to be Christian follow that whole chapter, all families would be as they should in God.
I appreciate that you have taken the time to have this blog. God continue to bless you and your family in Christ.
Karen~~~

Abbi said...

Justin,
Thank you very much for the very complete and thought out comment. I appreciate you bringing more scripture into the discussion.

As a person who is quite politically involved and very much is against governments that don't govern Godly principles I did probably go heavy on the scriptures that I needed as a reminder to me (they are also the ones that most plainly talk about government in the New Testament). As I did say in the post we do need to always remember what we are taught in Acts 5:29 - Obey God first and then obey our government in the things that we are told to do that DO NOT go against God.

I do still stand behind my post. Those are God's words that I shared and I don't think we should try to worm our way out of believing them and following them.

J Townsend said...

Hey I am new to this site but want to get into it as I feel this is a good topic. Right now I am a sex offender. I want to go to church.
My conviction was in truth a police deception on the internet. I am on probation but I have to go thru all those steps to get a chaperone to attend church. Me and my probation officer met with the pastor today about me attending church.
Some sex offenders can't attend church and some can... my offense didn't involve any teenager but a six foot police officer. Anyway, the probation officer was slinging darts to the pastor and on and on and that I was in still in denial when I admitted my wrong and took my guilty, which was a plea deal which I think is somewhat of making a pack with the devil.
While I just sit and listened to them mostly and than told them about my conviction and about what God would want us to do. Those in of the church that might get upset about a sex offender attending don't have there heart's right, if they did they would accept them.
I sort of coined a phrase about a "Brabbas Confession" or a murderer as apposed to a sex offender Confession. What would be the difference? Although the pastor listened and got insight about the sex offenders there is a hidden and craftiness the Government uses to lead others astray. I think the pastor got that feeling also.
They want the pastor to meet with someone else to approve him for me for church so that person can also approve him for consideration for me to attend church. Now that gets pretty sticky when one has to go to all these lengths just to get a chaperone and get approval from someone of a secular nature that hasn't really the understanding of Gods' grace or word to start with and has to approve a church pastor or deacon or church member.

Now in Ephesians it says: For we (wrestle) not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
So how do we wrestle? Bringing them into understanding of God's way and his principals. Petitioning is one way and being bold is another way.... putting on the whole armor of God to stand the wiles of the devil.

Yes, I'm afraid to say the sex offender is in bondage.... now there are many different types of sex offenders..... I have given you my example but from government's perspective are all lumped up into one category.
If someone can understand all this I would love to hear about this please e-mail me at magic357@comcast.com my name is James.

DapperDan said...

So according to these quotes, America is unchristian since the rebels that founded this country did not accept their king like unquestioning sheep.

Anonymous said...

Greetings Abbi and all bloggers! If you carefully review history, you discover that our country and our leaders were overwhelmingly Christian and founded upon Christian principles. Their writings are very overt. Men like John Quincy Adams are inspiring and amazing! I am proud of these men, our founding documents, and what our great nation was. They recognized and rejected tyranny and were truly willing to risk their lives and worldly treasure.
Romans 13:11 "And that, knowing the time, that it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than we believed." Yes, we Christ followers need to wake up! The corporate church is asleep in their million plus dollar buildings! The American church has been a joke and that's why we, as a nation, replaced the God of the scriptures with the god of government for our needs: health care, social security, education, defense, etc. We are in bondage, and in judgment! Wake up! The police state and Christ haters are gearing up to descend upon us! Repent and seek His guidance! The true church can and will have more of an impact now and in the coming days than ever before. Signs of economic and social collapse are all around us and the enemy within guided by the prince of the power of the air is well entrenched in Washington, Langley and Wall St. Wake up!

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